Wednesday, March 03, 2010

The paladin is Doctor Manhattan, the fighter is the Comedian

As I watch Obiri's paladin dish out 60 to 80 pts. of damage per round, inspire his allies, heal his wounds, save against everything and even turn on the charm when it's called for, I am left with one undeniable conclusion, the Pathfinder paladin is the ultimate base class in the game. So here we go. In a few weeks, we are going to start up an evil campaign. Who's going to DM this? Obiri! The guy that just spent the last six months playing the most potent PC I can recall seeing in years, maybe ever. Boys, I advise running away as fast as you can from even the rumour of a paladin in the upcoming campaign. We are going to get spanked.



Derobane-bane said...

I had similar thoughts over the course of this campaign. Paladins are very potent and versatile characters in Pathfinder. Our paladin friend Alphonso has been able to wreak absolute havoc on the world of devils to extreme efficiency using the same +2 sword that he picked up at 4th level.

Maybe the Paladin just seems super awesome because of the all the evil outsiders that are involved in this campaign. Maybe he seems extraordinary in martial powers because of the contrast with the gish fighter in the party.

I wonder how a paladin's martial skills compare to the fighter? I suppose a more holistic comparrission would be better.

Yeah, paladins rock. I've got nothin'.

Rognar said...

The smite evil ability is mind-bogglingly powerful against evil outsiders, evil dragons and undead (yeah, most of things you want to be powerful against). But against other evil monsters and humanoids, it's still pretty potent. I did a little back-of-the-envelope calculation of a 10th-level paladin (16 Str) vs fighter (20 Str) using a +1 two-handed weapon. The fighter gets weapon training and weapon spec bonuses which added to Str and weapon bonuses gives a +12 damage bonus. The paladin just has his smite bonus, but combined with Str and weapon bonuses, gives +15 damage. So even setting aside all the other paladin special abilities, he still gets a better damage bonus. To hit bonuses are about equal, depending on how much the paladin invests in Cha.

Rognar said...

By the way, don't think I didn't notice that little shot at Damius. Still smarting because he almost disembowelled Haer? :D

BrianKLujan said...

we have a player in our Paladin in Hell campaign that is playing one, but he's playing it a little strangely. He's sort of an unusual player and decided to make a paladin that fights from a distance with a bow and has a sneak skill that rivals the party thief. He fancies himself as a "behind enemy lines" type of paladin that likes to sneak up on his enemies and kill them.

And believe me, he dominates the party's killing ability even with a bow.

Derobane-bane said...

Damius is a killer, make no mistake. Haer felt the puncture of that gishy spear right between his ribs. No, Haer admittedly holds a healthy measure of respect and fear for the sorcerer-warrior and is far more afraid of the wild card attitude of Damius.

Sure, the paladin deals out way more damage than Damius, but Alphonso can be manipulated easily, given his retarded moral code. Haer actually thinks twice before even considering pulling a fast one on Damius.

Game mechanics aside, Damius is mcuh scarier than Alphonso... to Haer anyway.

Rognar said...

Yeah Brian, that's a bit off the wall. What rules are you using?

Derobane-bane said...

Our party paladin is very versatile as Rognar mentioned above. Still, I don't think that Alphonso steals any niche from any other players. Our party is really quite synergistic and balanced.

How does the party thief feel about a sneaky paladin that 'took his job' (said in a South Park Red Neck way)?

I could see some redundancy between a paladin and a fighter, but a ROGUE?! That would tick me off, as a rogue. I'd just play a different guy.

Obiri said...

A paladin archer is a fearsome opponent. Alphonso has to run up to the target and actually keep it close so he can unload multiple attacks per round. The archer gets full attacks every round doing the same damage I do with my sword.

I considered going that route but decided to follow the traditional path.

Basically at my level I pick 4 opponents a day and they die assuming they are evil. If they move around a lot or if my dice hate me it takes a few rounds but the outcome is pretty much the same. I make almost all of my saves and I can heal myself 66d6 hp over 10 rounds using swift actions.

Damage against average foes is only mediocre and that's only because I power attack everything.

Now my back up character is a fighter. His AC is about the same as Damius (maybe a bit lower) but his reflex and will saves are pretty dismal. However he deals an average 34 points of damage a swing which is much better then the paladin. The fighter blows the paladin away except against evil outsiders, undead and dragons (boss enemies all) and even then it's close. The paladins great asset is his strong defense.

I already had the idea for a paladin and an inquisitor to come after you guys if you are too obviously evil.

Derobane-bane said...

A paladin and an inquisitor chasing after an evil gang. I did the same thing a few years ago... and Radikar ate the paladin's guts for brunch and paraded around camp wearing the paladin's severed head as a hat.

This sounds like an excellent challenge.

Rognar said...

Yeah, but that wasn't a Pathfinder paladin and sadly, there are no Pathfinder warlocks to balance the ledger.